We must save the Museum
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nacra 93
- Donateur

We must save the Museum
Dit is ook wat, poeh. Van Saabunited
This are the words written in countless of e-mails sent to us! And yes, I have been thinking exactly that for the past 6 months and have investigated greatly in what would be required if such a thing would be done, this is no easy task!
What most people don’t realize is how extreme this task is, it would be the one biggest single thing any fan-group would have done ever! It is an extreme financial undertaking! I have had contact with Peter Bäckström, the custodian of the Saab Museum in this matter a few months ago. I have had contact with lawyers, banks and many more regarding this issue so please take the things I’m writing below VERY seriously!
First of all, FORGET a foundation, it takes too much time, too many people involved, too complex legally, finding the right people all with the same commitment, dedication and opinions on how things should be run is more or less impossible. The ONLY viable solution is that a company is created to buy the Museum. This company is run by a CEO with a board of directors. The CEO is one person, he/she runs the place the way he thinks is right and everyone will have to accept that! The required method is a bit like the military, but it is the only way that could work in the long run! Too many ingredients and the soup don’t taste too good…
One thing that is absolutely important in terms of funding such a thing and that is to calculate with zero income for the first two years, until procedures, average visitors rates, power, water, waste etc etc etc costs can be assured. Any company that is started up needs to estimate a negative result for the first two years at least, this is sound business and any accountant will tell you exactly that!
These are the steps required:
- A serious estimation of the value of each car in the museum plus the amount of money required to restore the car to a drivable condition considering paint job, interior, tires, and maintenance, cleaning for at least 5 years. Those extra costs covered over 5 years is aprox an average value of a normal cars running costs which is aprox 25% of the money required to buy it, which would be a fair estimation in this case.
- Facilites, the facilities must be financed preferably with a purchase to keep the monthly costs down, if not the rent for the first two years needs to covered in the initial buyout.
- Insurance for all the cars. Usually a facility insurance will cover the cars inside, but with the value of the cars this insurance cost is a considerable amount.
- Cleaning of the facilities. Everything that is not the cars themselves needs to stay clean as well. With people walking in and out with shoes they use outside as well consider that the facilities need serious cleaning at least twice per week including lavatories etc.
- Staff, a minimum staff of 5 people is required to run the museum from 0900 – 1800, one person at a time including staff for the weekends. Their costs need to be included in the initial buy and a minimum of two years worth of wages needs to be included.
- Electricity, water, heating, waste, air-conditioning etc… those things are expensive!
There are things one could do to make money, print posters, books, photos, postcards, meetings, attendance fees etc. But these types of income don’t come even close to the amount of money to cover the costs of running the place. There are also funding that could be sought from for example the European Union, The Government etc, but to do this legal advice is required which also costs money!
Running costs for the museum in its current state is about 650’000 Euro’s per year. One could maybe get 10% of that through sales, which means that the rest will have to be covered by continuous funding, about 585’000 Euro’s per year. Lets say that 20% of the 125’000 unique visitors here on SU are willing or able to take part in this deal, that is 25000 persons which means that each person would need to contribute with 240 euro’s per year! so about 20 Euro’s per month, how ever you look at it, it is a lot of money! If only half are willing, the cost for the rest is doubled. With business you always need to calculate with a worst case and best case scenario and hope that you end up somewhere in the middle… I’ve been working with a business that me and some friends owned for a few years so I have first hand experience in that!
It’s very easy to say that we’re going to gather up some money and then buy the museum, but as you see there are tons of other things to consider! And forget politicians helping, I don’t trust them…
As a test before anyone wants to jump into this kind of thing, I would suggest that we contact the administrators and ask if we can buy one 9-5 SportsCombi. These cars will probably be scrapped =( Now I know they are all prototype registered and have a users certificate from Saab Automobile. But since Saab does not exist anymore no such certificate is valid, so that car would become a static display car only and never be driven other than in enclosed spaces. Now SU could do this, we have a company, no charity, but we could sell a product which people can pay whatever they want for, and that money, ALL OF IT would go buying such a car, it would be a first step… now if we’re able to do that, then we can consider something else.
But for now, I know that Victor Muller is working extremely hard on saving Saab, Museum and everything else as one complete package which is in no doubt the best way to do that!. Lets let him try it first! But we have a plan, if he should fail…
This are the words written in countless of e-mails sent to us! And yes, I have been thinking exactly that for the past 6 months and have investigated greatly in what would be required if such a thing would be done, this is no easy task!
What most people don’t realize is how extreme this task is, it would be the one biggest single thing any fan-group would have done ever! It is an extreme financial undertaking! I have had contact with Peter Bäckström, the custodian of the Saab Museum in this matter a few months ago. I have had contact with lawyers, banks and many more regarding this issue so please take the things I’m writing below VERY seriously!
First of all, FORGET a foundation, it takes too much time, too many people involved, too complex legally, finding the right people all with the same commitment, dedication and opinions on how things should be run is more or less impossible. The ONLY viable solution is that a company is created to buy the Museum. This company is run by a CEO with a board of directors. The CEO is one person, he/she runs the place the way he thinks is right and everyone will have to accept that! The required method is a bit like the military, but it is the only way that could work in the long run! Too many ingredients and the soup don’t taste too good…
One thing that is absolutely important in terms of funding such a thing and that is to calculate with zero income for the first two years, until procedures, average visitors rates, power, water, waste etc etc etc costs can be assured. Any company that is started up needs to estimate a negative result for the first two years at least, this is sound business and any accountant will tell you exactly that!
These are the steps required:
- A serious estimation of the value of each car in the museum plus the amount of money required to restore the car to a drivable condition considering paint job, interior, tires, and maintenance, cleaning for at least 5 years. Those extra costs covered over 5 years is aprox an average value of a normal cars running costs which is aprox 25% of the money required to buy it, which would be a fair estimation in this case.
- Facilites, the facilities must be financed preferably with a purchase to keep the monthly costs down, if not the rent for the first two years needs to covered in the initial buyout.
- Insurance for all the cars. Usually a facility insurance will cover the cars inside, but with the value of the cars this insurance cost is a considerable amount.
- Cleaning of the facilities. Everything that is not the cars themselves needs to stay clean as well. With people walking in and out with shoes they use outside as well consider that the facilities need serious cleaning at least twice per week including lavatories etc.
- Staff, a minimum staff of 5 people is required to run the museum from 0900 – 1800, one person at a time including staff for the weekends. Their costs need to be included in the initial buy and a minimum of two years worth of wages needs to be included.
- Electricity, water, heating, waste, air-conditioning etc… those things are expensive!
There are things one could do to make money, print posters, books, photos, postcards, meetings, attendance fees etc. But these types of income don’t come even close to the amount of money to cover the costs of running the place. There are also funding that could be sought from for example the European Union, The Government etc, but to do this legal advice is required which also costs money!
Running costs for the museum in its current state is about 650’000 Euro’s per year. One could maybe get 10% of that through sales, which means that the rest will have to be covered by continuous funding, about 585’000 Euro’s per year. Lets say that 20% of the 125’000 unique visitors here on SU are willing or able to take part in this deal, that is 25000 persons which means that each person would need to contribute with 240 euro’s per year! so about 20 Euro’s per month, how ever you look at it, it is a lot of money! If only half are willing, the cost for the rest is doubled. With business you always need to calculate with a worst case and best case scenario and hope that you end up somewhere in the middle… I’ve been working with a business that me and some friends owned for a few years so I have first hand experience in that!
It’s very easy to say that we’re going to gather up some money and then buy the museum, but as you see there are tons of other things to consider! And forget politicians helping, I don’t trust them…
As a test before anyone wants to jump into this kind of thing, I would suggest that we contact the administrators and ask if we can buy one 9-5 SportsCombi. These cars will probably be scrapped =( Now I know they are all prototype registered and have a users certificate from Saab Automobile. But since Saab does not exist anymore no such certificate is valid, so that car would become a static display car only and never be driven other than in enclosed spaces. Now SU could do this, we have a company, no charity, but we could sell a product which people can pay whatever they want for, and that money, ALL OF IT would go buying such a car, it would be a first step… now if we’re able to do that, then we can consider something else.
But for now, I know that Victor Muller is working extremely hard on saving Saab, Museum and everything else as one complete package which is in no doubt the best way to do that!. Lets let him try it first! But we have a plan, if he should fail…
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turbopilot
- Donateur (7x)

Re: We must save the Museum
emotie is een slechte raadgever, maar wat zou de curator ervoor willen hebben?
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Robbert
- Donateur (6x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Hoeveel auto's staan er eigenlijk in het museum?
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John
- Geregistreerd lid
Re: We must save the Museum
turbopilot schreef:emotie is een slechte raadgever, maar wat zou de curator ervoor willen hebben?
daar zat ik ook aan te denken. Ik denk eigenlijk weinig. Of beter: de curator wil er wel wat voor hebben maar niemand gaat dat betalen denk ik.
Waarom denk ik dat: gewoon omdat er relatief weinig bezoekers zijn (vergelijk met bv Porsche of BMW museum) en je voor zover ik weet je niet zoveel met de oude saabs kunt (zijn ze allemaal rijdbaar?). Vergelijk het maar weer met Porsche: daarvan rijdt IEDERE auto in het museum en worden ze daadwerkelijk de hele wereld over versleept naar allerlei exclusieve evenementen (Le Mans classic, Goodwood e.d.) waar mensen behoorlijk wat voor betalen en wat ook weer jongensdromen (dus toekomstige inkomsten) genereert (bij Porsche zijn bij het museum 10 FTE aan monteurs in dienst om de auto's in topconditie te houden). Bij Saab is dat niet het geval dus dat betekent dat je op zoek moet naar iemand die veel goodwill wil investeringen (dus die de emotie wel waardeert en wat centen overheeft).
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gj900
- Donateur (9x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Het is toch ongelooflijk dat de gemeente Trollhättan (evt. met hulp van de overheid) dat museum niet kan runnen. Samen met de sluizen toch een publieksmagneet. De Zweden zijn trots op hun industrieel erfgoed, maar zodra er centjes over de brug moeten komen, is niemand thuis... maar wel klagen dat alles verdwijnt.
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N2024
- Geregistreerd lid
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mennoherstel
- Donateur (3x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Die gemeente zal z'n geld hard nodig hebben om volgend jaar alle uitkeringen te kunnen betalen, lijkt me zo..... 
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jansen
- Donateur (7x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Kijk daar is weer zo,n kleine misvatting, bij het museum zit ook een redelijk gevulde magazijn bij waar destijds ook enkele monteurs in dienst waren en de auto,s prepareerde voor rally,s e.d. daarbij werden motoren gewoon nieuw uit de verpakking gehaald, voor die 3cilinder tweetakten die wij jaren terug in de werkplaats nog reviseerde, die haalde zij gewoon nieuw uit de schap, bij elke auto die in het museum staat hoordt ook een respectabel onderdelen pakket bij, je kijkt je ogen uit in het magazijn van het museum, nieuwe body,s van Sonnet,s liggen of lagen gewoon op voorraad.Waarom denk ik dat: gewoon omdat er relatief weinig bezoekers zijn (vergelijk met bv Porsche of BMW museum) en je voor zover ik weet je niet zoveel met de oude saabs kunt (zijn ze allemaal rijdbaar?). Vergelijk het maar weer met Porsche: daarvan rijdt IEDERE auto in het museum en worden ze daadwerkelijk de hele wereld over versleept naar allerlei exclusieve evenementen (Le Mans classic, Goodwood e.d.) waar mensen behoorlijk wat voor betalen en wat ook weer jongensdromen (dus toekomstige inkomsten) genereert (bij Porsche zijn bij het museum 10 FTE aan monteurs in dienst om de auto's in topconditie te houden). Bij Saab is dat niet het geval dus dat betekent dat je op zoek moet naar iemand die veel goodwill wil investeringen (dus die de emotie wel waardeert en wat centen overheeft).
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Spatje
- Donateur (3x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Dezelfde discussie wordt momenteel gevoerd over het failliete Aviodrome. Wel of geen stichting, hoe kun je een museum ooit kostendekkend krijgen? SU ziet kennelijk een paar kleine mogelijkheden, ik ben benieuwd. Als het blijft bestaan ga ik er zeker een keer kijken, 
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N2024
- Geregistreerd lid
Re: We must save the Museum
Aviodrome is volgens mij echt een stuk moeilijker als Saab, de connie alleen al is bijna een project vergelijkbaar met `t Saab museum. Zeker als Magna Saab overneemt is de funding van het museum niet zo`n drama.
Nu we het over vliegerij hebben, staan er echt geen vliegtuigen in het Saab museum? Zelfs Mercedes heeft vliegtuigen in het museum, ik heb `t zelf gecheckt

Meer foto`s staan hier: http://www.jouwkeuken.nl/documents/fabriekneff.php
Nu we het over vliegerij hebben, staan er echt geen vliegtuigen in het Saab museum? Zelfs Mercedes heeft vliegtuigen in het museum, ik heb `t zelf gecheckt

Meer foto`s staan hier: http://www.jouwkeuken.nl/documents/fabriekneff.php
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Robbert
- Donateur (6x)

Re: We must save the Museum

Ik zie niet direct wat het er voor een eentje is. Een Safir?
Edit: ja!
Picture ID: 1305721
Picture Category: Liaison / Preserved
Type: Saab 91A Safir
Owner / Operator: Flygvapen Museum
Unit / Wing: F8
Aircraft Registration: SE-AYC
Codes / Other Marks: 8 / 4
Construction Number: 91-104
Location: Linkoping - Malmen (ESCF), Sweden
Date: 8th June 1988
Photographer: Don Hewins Contact
Additional Information
Painted in Swedish AF marks - now preserved at SAAB Car Museum, Trollhättan
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Frans1
- Geregistreerd lid
Re: We must save the Museum
Op vakantie in Zweden ben ik zowel in het Saab als het Volvo museum geweest. Ondanks dat het Volvo museum veel groter is, deed het Saab-museum er absoluut niet voor onder. Het is een knus en gezellig museum en de medewerkers zijn uiterst vriendelijk. Ik kreeg destijs het boek 50 jaar Saab van het museum kado, omdat die middag kroonprinses Victoria een bezoek aan het museum kwam brengen en het toen niet mogelijk was om een testrit in een 9-5 te maken ( stonden bij het museum nieuwe Saabs voor een gratis proefrit). Ik zou het verdrietig vinden als het museum verloren gaat. 
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N207
- Donateur

Re: We must save the Museum
Er zal in Zweden toch ook wel een combinatie van Saab auto's en vliegtuigen gemaakt kunnen worden. Er zijn sowieso vliegtuigmusea in Linköping (Flygvapenmuseum van de Zweedse luchtmacht) en in Göteborg (Aeroseum) waar veel Saabs staan. De Zweedse luchtmacht heeft er zat afgedankt de afgelopen jaren. Aviodrome heeft trouwens ook nog een J37 Viggen "over"... helaas.
Men zou het zelfs nog breder kunnen trekken en ook Scania mee kunnen nemen (personenauto's, vrachtwagens en vliegtuigen). MOet gek gaan wil dat geen publiekstrekker worden.
Men zou het zelfs nog breder kunnen trekken en ook Scania mee kunnen nemen (personenauto's, vrachtwagens en vliegtuigen). MOet gek gaan wil dat geen publiekstrekker worden.
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Sapphire
- Donateur (7x)

Re: We must save the Museum
Eerlijk gezegd ben ik het volledig met je eens, maar toch wil ik er alles aan doen om het museum te redden...gj900 schreef:Het is toch ongelooflijk dat de gemeente Trollhättan (evt. met hulp van de overheid) dat museum niet kan runnen. Samen met de sluizen toch een publieksmagneet. De Zweden zijn trots op hun industrieel erfgoed, maar zodra er centjes over de brug moeten komen, is niemand thuis... maar wel klagen dat alles verdwijnt.
@N2024: voor het aviodrome is al een oplossing aangedragen